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Wednesday, Jan 7, 2009
As his book "Why We Suck" hits the shelves, Denis Leary talks about lazy parenting, the media storm surrounding his views on autism, and the omnipotence of Oprah.
By Heather Havrilesky
Read more: Books, Oprah Winfrey, Parenting, TV, Interviews, Salon Arts & Entertainment, Autism, Authors, Heather Havrilesky, Books Interviews
Photo by Clay Patrick McBride
Denis Leary
Nov. 20, 2008 | Denis Leary is anything but apologetic. From the hapless machismo of his character on "Rescue Me," the fireman drama he created and writes for FX, to the title of his new book, "Why We Suck: A Feel Good Guide to Staying Fat, Loud, Lazy and Stupid," Leary has a knack for pushing buttons with brash views that sometimes feel like empty provocation. Cast even a cursory glance at the chapter titles of his book -- "I Had Sex With Kathie Lee Gifford (And She Was Amazing)," "Matt Dillon Is a Giant Fag," "Autism Shmautism," "We'd Hate You Even If You Weren't Black" -- and you'd assume that the entire tome is filled with nastiness and ignorant, insensitive opinions.
But Leary's book and his views are a little more informed and evenhanded than they first appear. Although activist groups have taken issue with Leary for suggesting that autism is caused by bad parenting, in his book Leary very clearly takes on the parents of kids who aren't autistic -- autistic kids are smart and industrious, not lazy and stupid, he points out -- but who seek out the diagnosis as a means of explaining away their kids' flaws and their own ineptitude.
The funniest, most colorful passages concern his family, from a brother whose standard greeting when they were little was "Hey faggot!" to a mother who still enjoys pointing out the gruesome ways that each of the people in her old photographs died. In another chapter, Leary scratches the surface of the Oprah phenomenon, only to find himself overwhelmed by the wealth of information Oprah has to share, her enormous range as a host, and her sheer, unquestionable power.
Leary called from his home in New York City to talk with Salon about George Carlin's legacy, the culture of permissive parenting and the controversy surrounding his book. Far from the violent frat boy he portrays on his show, Leary not only referred to himself as a "dyed-in-the-wool Democrat" but said that he considers himself a feminist. Still, he insisted that if no one is pissed off, that means he's not doing his job.
When you're used to writing stand-up or dialogue, is the process of writing a book difficult?
Well, I mean I hate to say this because I think real writers will be upset, because [with] comedians, it's kind of a cheat. We're thinking these things anyways. Yeah, it's work to put it down on paper as opposed to just getting up onstage and saying it.
I was just down in Washington last night for the George Carlin tribute [Carlin was awarded the Mark Twain Prize for American Humor, announced four days before his death in June] and there's a roomful of all these comedians, most of these guys have already written a book. Bill Maher was there and Lewis Black has written a couple of books now, and Jon Stewart. You know, they were all making fun of me because I was the last guy to come out with a book.
I interviewed Carlin last year, and he said that he didn't become a real writer until about halfway through his career, and it really improved his stand-up routine.
It makes you sit down for four hours a day and formalize your thoughts. There's a rhythm to it. The kind of comedy I do anyway is sort of an observational, satirical take on whatever -- politics, society, behavior -- but there's a rhythm to comedy that's kind of musically oriented. When I had to read these things out loud, it [made me want to] go back and rewrite it and find the right word. I liked it, I can't wait to do another one.
Do you count Carlin as an influence?
Oh yeah. I didn't know anything about Lenny Bruce until I discovered [Carlin's album] "Class Clown" in 1972 because the Catholic Church bulletin had a thing that said "Banned Books and Records" and they named "Class Clown," and that's what made me buy the record because that's just the kind of guy I am. And as soon as I heard that record, I said, "I know guys like this. And I'm an Irish guy. Maybe I could do this."
You're sort of following in Carlin's footsteps in terms of provoking a big reaction in the press. You've already caught some flack from autism activists about the chapter "Autism Shmautism." But you've said that your words were taken out of context.
If you read the book, you know that they [reacted to] the exact opposite of what I was saying. I never said that autism didn't exist. I never said that parents caused autism. I wasn't defining autism, I was discussing it as a comedy doctor, not a real doctor. I was pointing to a real issue that exists, which a lot of people who deal with the issue and have children with autism have since e-mailed me to say they not only identify but agree with. Which is people who are, believe it or not, seeking out low-level diagnoses of [autism in] their kids to get a special needs recognition or to explain away the behavior. There's no comedy point of view in saying there's no such thing as autism, which is why I didn't say it. The comedy point of view is to point out the ridiculousness of wishing away your child's behavior by saying, "Oh, my kid's special." And that's what I set out to say.
You wrote that the autistic kids who you know are smart, and if your kid is really lazy and stupid, that's probably a sign that he's not autistic.
The issue really is about lazy parenting and about the ridiculousness of seeking out or self-diagnosing yourself into that category. I did feel that when they pulled the words out, they did it without telling people what the chapter was about. I don't blame people for being upset, because if I had read that, I would've been upset, too.
You weren't exactly taking a cautious stance with this book, of course. You also wrote, "Please drug your children" and "You have to hit kids, you have a responsibility to do so." Do you want to explain either of those?
You could also take something out of the "We'd Hate You Even If You Weren't Black" chapter and make me look like a racist, I guess, if you wanted to approach it that way.
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